Debateful

Ok my first post so please try and bare with me here..

Im quite tired of hearing everyone bash the bush administration for "terrrible and murderous decisions in iraq". Honestly i feel that we have plenty of good reasons to be at war with iraq that far surpasses oil and terrorism...we used to be the country who single handedly had the most powerful and feared army in the world. But lately many have seen us a no more than a rag-tag militia with the capabilitie of a third-world country (al-qaeda). So when 9/11 happened some sort of action had to be taken towards the defense of our nation. So we went to war at the beginning morale was high and everyone supported the idea..but as time went on the morale dwindled and many doubted not knowing that the implication taking place would take a while to take effect and fully eliminate al-qaeda and bring iraq its freedom. soon people became impatient and began the idea we needed to pull out of iraq but even though our idea of success in iraq wasnt fully reached all is not lost, if we do pull out than the example we would be setting for other countries would be
that the once most powerful and feared nation cannot take down a simple terroist group. Lives will be lost but that happens as in any war our casulties are under 5k and thats unacceptable? hmm I dont see how this war is a wasted expense ..
what are your views?

-TrueGenius

TrueGenius Wrote:So when 9/11 happened some sort of action had to be taken towards the defense of our nation.

And that's great and all, but Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

Quote:So we went to war at the beginning morale was high and everyone supported the idea..

Not me!

Quote:but as time went on the morale dwindled and many doubted not knowing that the implication taking place would take a while to take effect and fully eliminate al-qaeda and bring iraq its freedom.

I think that's great that we gave Iraq its freedom, but what I hate about it is that I feel we were lied to. I definitely remember all that "Iraq has weapons of mass destruction!" talk. With 9/11 still fresh in people's mind, most people supported invading Iraq. We go there at what do we find? Not any weapons of mass destruction.

Quote:soon people became impatient and began the idea we needed to pull out of iraq but even though our idea of success in iraq wasnt fully reached all is not lost,

What success? What exactly is being done? We overthrew the dictator years ago. Now it's up to them to run their own country. I don't think the "keep shooting -- they're not looking grateful for their freedom yet!" is really working.

Quote:if we do pull out than the example we would be setting for other countries would be
that the once most powerful and feared nation cannot take down a simple terroist group. Lives will be lost but that happens as in any war our casulties are under 5k and thats unacceptable? hmm I dont see how this war is a wasted expense ..
what are your views?

I think we're setting an example of how stupid we're being. We've lost thousands of our own troops, and killed even more Iraqi civilians. There already has been huge casualties, and the number is only growing.

Timothy McVeigh had more WMDs in the back of that Ryder truck than Saddam ever dreamed of having.
PLUS, the culprits of 9/11 were SAUDIS.
So why aren't we invading Saudi Arabia? These Saudis were living in Afghanistan. Saudi Arabians out of Afghanistan.
Where's Iraq? We attacked Iraq on the premise that they had WMDs. The UN didn't find them. So we wiped out Saddam. Ok, but what did it have to do with 9/11?
And where is Bin Laden?
All the promises and everything...ONE question.
I want an answer. Where is Osama Bin Laden? Tell me.
Pookie

I also love how it seems people have not only completely forgotten that it is Osama Bin Laden who is our greatest enemy and not Saddam, but also that Bush Sr. invaded Iraq a decade previously. You'd think people would be able to put two and two together.

But no one has answered my question. Where's Osama Bin Laden?
Purrs,
Pookie

Pookie Wrote:Timothy McVeigh had more WMDs in the back of that Ryder truck than Saddam ever dreamed of having.

Sarcasm, ok, I will let it slide assuming you meant Saddam had no WMDs when OIF began becasue he did have them, tons and tons of them, before hand in the 80s and 90s. (Oddly, that is when McVeigh was doing his thing.)

Quote:PLUS, the culprits of 9/11 were SAUDIS. So why aren't we invading Saudi Arabia? These Saudis were living in Afghanistan. Saudi Arabians out of Afghanistan.

Yes, and McVeigh was from the US. Yet, we are not invading Texas. Point being, just becasue culprits are from a country does not necessarily mean the country's government supported/sponsored the event.

Quote:Where's Iraq?

West of Iran.

Quote:And where is Bin Laden?

Pakistan

Quote:All the promises and everything...ONE question.
I want an answer. Where is Osama Bin Laden? Tell me.
Pookie

Pakistan

Good. There's all the answers. So why hasn't Osama Bin Laden been caught yet?
Purrs,
Pookie

Probably for the same reason AQ has not captured GWB.

First, a little about myself. I have just returned from my 4th tour from Iraq due to being medical'd out. I dont feel like I fit into society. I came home and it seemed to me that the country doesnt seem as if there is a war going on. Some people came up to me in different places to shake my hand and thank me but all of them had the same view, we support you guys, not the war. Isnt that an oxymoron? Thats like supporting the milk and not the cow. To us, it makes us seem like what we do day to day and what we are fighting for are meaningless. It makes it seem like every drop of American blood spilled by our soldiers were in vein. Myself and the operators I work with all have the same mindset when it comes to this. If you don't support the war, don't support us. We don't want to made a mockery of. Let us do the job that needs to be done. The Iraqi people are GOOD people, I have many Iraqi friends whom I miss while I am stateside.

The originiator of this post made a good point. One I have said many times. We were attacked. Remember? When people hi-jacked OUR planes with OUR American citizens on it and flew them into buildings and fields killing even more American citizens. Does anyone remember how after 911 flags were on EVERY house and every car? Remember Pearl Harbour? We were attacked. We responded swiftly and justly and kicked their asses. Now we are mopping up. The Iraqi Army is stepping up, the Iraqi government is dispersing money to boost the economy. I just wanted to put this out there for thought.

I am a veteran of Somalia, Desert Storm, Iraqi Freedom, and about any other skirmish our country has been involved with. I was first told I had "combat shock" after Somalia. Now I am being told I have PTSD (which I agree with).

I expected to come home and have family issues. It's difficult to have any kind of constant communication in the field and over a period of time that takes it tolls on the home front.

I am experiencing non-stop nightmares, everynight. I intentionally stay awake because in my mind it seems as if there are little demons waiting to torment me. I have flashbacks daily. Vivid flashbacks. So vivid I find myself coming out of them trying to raise my assault rifle to kill. Alot of my flashbacks do revolve around people who I have killed. I see their faces. Its a double edged sword. If I kill an insurgent I may have saved an 18 year old American infantryman. But, I chose this. This is a what freedom costs. Sometimes death is a blessing, living with what you have done is the curse. But, I know what freedom costs. I have seen it. Felt it. Bled it. Smelled it.

Now, onto some of the replies in this thread. Weapons of mass destruction. Did I think I personally was going to find WMD's when going into Iraq? No, I knew, from a military strategic standpoint that if I was in Suddam's shoes, the first thing I would do would be to move them to Pakistan.

Will we invade Iran? Probably. Does Iran pose a threat to the United Nations? In my opinion it does. Do I look forward to attacking Iran? No, I thought I was going to die in Iraq. What will I do when given the order? I will attack as ordered.

It AMAZES me people think that Husseins regime didn't have WMD's. There is this thing called history. The thing about history, it repeats itself, then, repeats itself again.

Does the date March 16, 1988 ring a bell to anyone? Unless is is a birthdate or special occasion is doesn't mean thing to you. What did it mean to FIFTEEN THOUSAND men, woman, children and infants? It was a day of death.

It was on this day that the Kurdish town of Halabja in northern Iraq was attacked BY Saddam with a mix of mustard gas and nerve agents, killing 5,000 civilians, and maiming, disfiguring, or seriously debilitating 10,000 more.

Mustard gas is a strong blister-causing agent. It is an alkaline, similiar to battery acid. It is also strongly mutagenic (causing damage to the DNA of exposed cells) and carcinogenic (cancer causing). Within 4 to 24 hours the exposure develops into deep, itching or burning blisters wherever the mustard contacted the skin; if the eyes are exposed they become sore and the eyelids swell, possibly leading to conjunctivitis and blindness. According to the Medical Management of Chemical Casualties handbook, there have been experimental cases in humans where the patient has suffered miosis, or pinpointing of pupils, as a result of the cholinomimetic activity of mustard. At very high concentrations, if inhaled, it causes bleeding and blistering within the respiratory system, damaging the mucous membrane and causing pulmonary edema. Blister agent exposure over more than 50% body surface area is usually fatal.

Here is a picture of the aftermath http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/co...labja1.jpg

Yes, I did get the majority of this information from Wikimedia because I don't know if I am wasting my time here trying to explain this war. War is war. What is the answer? Who knows. It isn't political. Am I going to die on some unknown street in Iraq, probably. Do I fear my death? No. I am a part of American History. I have made a difference. Maybe not in your life, but I know I have in someone's life.

During one of the training modules I was going through one of the instructors made a point about the delicate balance of politics and war. Unfortunatly this line was used in a movie which makes it not as special to us. The line was, "When that first bullet goes flying by your head, all the politics and bullshit go flying out the window."

Pookie Wrote:Good. There's all the answers. So why hasn't Osama Bin Laden been caught yet?
Purrs,
Pookie

Come help. Go to your local recruiter, enlist, go to Stan and join in the mountainous searches that happen daily. WE realize he is probably being harboured in Pakistan in an area "WE" are not allowed in.