Debateful

Apparently there is a Hindu god living in India somewhere. His name is Sai Baba. My friend Manix believes that this God can do miracles such as giving birth to a lingo(gold thingy) or w/e it is through his mouth. Mr. Baba can also make sand instantly come out from his hands and uses it to bless his followers. He can cure cancer from what Manix has said and also from some Youtube videos, he can make a crippled old man walk again. http://http://www.youtube.co...k14ho-8VxM There's a good clip for everyone. So Ijust wanted some opinions on this cult leader. Do you buy it and why do you believe what you believe? I've tried to convince Manix that this guy is a hoax using some reasoning and clips of Mr. Baba doing his "magic tricks" but it seems Manix is very determined on this one.

My dear friend Kevin,
You must realize that you have put a lot of insulting elements in this paragraph as I have told you for the countless hours; you can't disprove that this man does miracles, yet you cannot prove it either. What you are trying to do, Kevin, is a desperate attempt to prove me wrong (possibly because of the other debates we had) by attacking a religion.

I will relate this to a parallel of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ has done many miracles long ago. However, many people did not believe in what he did. most of the people who did not believe in him were Romans of a different religion. Imagine if he was reborn in today's world. Do not think that you will not be getting the same remarks from the Keviokes of the world. I would bet that many people would laugh and call him a fraud, producing many videos and exchanging various theories.
Kevin has tried disproving this by relating a numerous amount of data he found from anti-Hindu and anti-Saibaba sites. On the popular AIM, he has been debating with me for hours. In this paragraph he has insulted my religion and made me look like a fool. What he has done was a cowardly and low thing to do and has surprised me greatly. Of course, it is natural for most people that do not like this religion to not believe in this person, but i truly do believe in this person. Do not crucify me for my beliefs.

Dear Manix,
Yes, it is true that I am insulting you and that I think you're a fool Manix. You were the one that brought on this debate and so I am just arguing against it like you wanted me to. Watching Mr. Baba giving birth to a Linga is like watching Chris Angel cut a person in half. From what I understand, you haven't even really seen Mr. Baba in person or been to any of his so called rituals. How can you believe in just words from friends and relatives. I am not attacking your religion, you can believe whatever you want but I'm just stating facts. You can go ahead and believe this guy and think he can do all sorts of miracles that you haven't really seen in person; However, I'd like to use more trustworthy references to prove stuff such as the LAWS OF PHYSICS to prove what is real and what is not. Mr. Baba has NOT allowed controlled experimentations of his miracles. I wonder why? I base my conjectures on known facts of the universe while you base yours on things you hear from friends and relatives. You watch these videos and think he is really god. I think you are a fool not because of your religion but because you believe in something without really exploring the possibility that it may be fake.

I'm not necessarily implying that Sathya Sai Baba isn't a living God. Excluding my religious preferences, and having a sense of plausibility, I'm rather skeptical that it could be true. Please keep in mind that I'm in no way having the intentions of disrespecting a religion however there has been many people in the past that have pretended to be prophets, although, was revealed as a fraud. It could simply be faith on your part which many religion requires. From the video I've seen, I'm not completely sure what to say. I think that if I were to see it in person, my perspective would perhaps differ which would allow other opinions to emerge. If you believe in him, so be it. If you decide to stand by your religion, it's completely up to you. Good for you for doing so. Like I've stated previously, faith has a tremendous role in many religion and if people base it on that, it's entirely up to them for doing so. If you believe Sathya Sai Baba is not a hoax, so be it. People have different beliefs and it shouldn't jeopardize them.

i laugh at you kevin. YOu have no spirituality or anything inside of you. You are a skeptic by heart. don't try to misguide teh audience here. First thing: Birth to a linga? First time i read that on this, i thought he was in labor or something! He coughed out a golden chain. That's it. True, i have not been to this man, but i must tell you of the amount of things i heard he has done from friends and family.
and this thing of sai baba being a living god?!! listen. you must not have even read about this religion. First of all, Hinduism states that in every person on earth, god exists inside of them. Not really like A god, but like a force that unites everything together. MOre powerful than a god to us. I guess you might as well call this "god". So anyways, the goal is to realize that you are one with this god and that you are god. Mr. Baba says that the difference between us and him is that he recognizes this and we don't.
you say you base your facts on laws of physics and the facts of the universe.... What a very foolish thing to say. Facts on the universe?!?!?!? When we only went to the moon and Mars?!?!?!?!?! [censored], we don't even have facts on teh solar system. What makes you think that YOU have the facts of the universe? lol, anyways, i never did base my beliefs on youtube videos. I would never do such a thing. I believed in this man for a couple of years already. What you should realize is that you should not base your opinions on youtube or google videos and what extreme skeptics say on the internet. It will already be biased. And kevin just fyi, the man's critics even agree that he has some kind of "ppwer". And hindus aren't the only ones who come to this man. A lot of white christian people come to him too....
i also do not believe that a man becomes a fraud just for "pretending to do" miracles. I'm not saying that he is, but hypothetically, iff he was a fraud in the miracles, my respect for the man would not go down. I don't judge a man like that. The amount of money he has donated to poor people and community services he has done is a great thing in my opinion.

and of course, like i had said earlier, it is only natural for people of other religions to be skeptical of something. I mean, if some guy claims to be Jesus reborn and is reported to do as much miracles as Mr. Sai Baba, I sure as hell wouldn't believe it.....

i told kevin that this was a stupid topic to put up on debateful. I find this equivalent to a post questioning whether Jesus really did perform miracles back then or not. In my opinion, it's disrespectful towards the person and the religion he belongs to. Personally i think, if there was proof that Christ did not perform miracles, nothing would change. The christians today would not convert or anything. Because, it is not solely the miracles that makes the person how spiritual he is. I mean, they don't go around telling everybody they can do miracles. They just do them right there and then and people talk about them. Has he ever told the public to worship him because he can supposedly do that? No. So it's basically whether you believe in the person or not. And I simply choose to believe.

LOL darshan no topic is too stupid to put up on debateful. I just wanted to debate this with you in an intelligent manner with an audience to view it. It sounds like you didn't want me to post this topic up. But anyways I'm not going to attack you on that, so from what I'm getting here is that you believe in this guy named Sai Baba and your relatives/friends tell you stories of how he performs these miracles. Am I right? You also believe in him because he is charitable. I find this equivalent to of when I was a little boy on Christmas eve. Back then I believed in Santa(pfft how naive huh) and all the stories my parents and friends would tell me about him. I respected him for his charity and for his miracles he performed when I saw them in movies. When I grew older it was finally revealed to me that he was just an imaginary person. This kind of relates to what you are believing in right now. Your friends and family members tell you these stories maybe because they are also naive. Over the years I've become somewhat more keen on what i see and hear. I've learned to analyze all parts of a problem before trying to solve it. I have also acquired a taste for magic tricks, John and a couple of other friends come to know of me as somewhat of an amateur magician. I've seen tricks performed and I know quite a lot about sleight of hand movements as well as techniques that magicians use to make illusions.
You on the other hand have no experience with illusions nor have you even seen this Mr. Baba in real life. You base your conclusions not on experience but on words. And about Jesus being reborn, I would personally go and meet him myself and see if he was the real deal before actually supporting him. It is possible that even if these miracles are disproved it will not change the respect you have toward him, but this is not what I'm aiming at. The thing I want to prove you wrong at is your sense of logic. Common sense is what I'm trying to prove here. I have experience with magic tricks what do you have? You have listened to words spoken by other people who have been there. I have knowledge of the laws of physics what do you have? You have seen him on videos performing his miracles. Who is the one that should be laughed at here?

Neither of you should be laughed at. Read the rules, wiiaddict...Debates are to be kept impersonal. There will be NO debates about someone being stupid or misguided. These are BELIEFS, so I recommend the 'I laugh at you' comments and all of those to cease immediately.

Now, onto my opinion...For those Catholics out there, have you ever seen Jesus walk on water? Have you ever seen him bring a man's vision back? To heal those that are dead? If you say yes, you are lying. For those Jews out there, have you ever seen Abraham offer his son to be killed to show his faith to God? If you say yes, you are lying. For those Muslims out there, can you say you actually MET Mohammad? If you say yes, you are lying. Why do I say this? Because these are people dating back thousands of years ago, people who did their miracles so many years ago.

Yet...Yet those three religions have millions of followers, why? Because of stories told to them in a book written, not by those men, but by men who supposedly saw what they did. Did they see it? No. They HEARD about it and then wrote it. So, tell me something...Couldn't all of that be a hoax? Couldn't Christianity be a hoax? Couldn't Judaism be a hoax? Couldn't Islam be a hoax? Yes, they could be. But say that and you get torn to pieces because they've been 'religions for so long.'

Believe what you want...Do I believe in this? I would have to see him to believe it myself. But will I call it a hoax or anything? No. And to even compare this to the Laws of Physics is complete ignorance. Now I am a biology major, but I have taken a fondness to Physics and I can tell you, even that can be unpredictable. Science as a whole is unpredictable. You can think you know EXACTLY how a chemical reaction will take place and then voila, it does not work the way you wanted it to. I made Aspirin last week in my Organic Chemistry class...I added the final ingredient to make it PURE Aspirin and I ruined it. I did exactly what it said, yet something went wrong. You cannot compare religion to science. You cannot compare beliefs to science. They are just too unpredictable.

Jacob I respect what you just posted and I'm sorry for implying that Darshan should be laughed at. So basically what you just said in your post is that you have to see it to believe it. I totally agree with that. As I have posted before, I am not attacking Darshan's religion but his logic. He hasn't seen this guy in action so how can he believe so easily as you have said Jacob. I just want to know what drives him to these conclusions. Who knows, I might convert.

Whats the harm in him believing in this person? Does this person advocate violence against others? Does this person steal people's money and possessions? Does this man kill, injure, or threaten? Sometimes you just have a feeling that something is right. As silly as it sounds, even the US Military teaches us to trust our gut feelings, as they've been more right than wrong.

Well, the same can be asked of you then. Do you believe that the cell is made up of organelles such as mitochondria, endoplasmic reticulum, ribosomes, cytoplasm, etc? Why? Have you ever SEEN them? Chances are, you haven't because that would require a rather strong microscope. So, why do you believe it? Because it is what you are taught. Well, couldn't that all be wrong? There is nothing wrong with his logic for believing in that. If you believe in God, your logic is as skewed as his. Religion does not require a logic. It's simple a feeling, a belief, a desire.